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Saturday, March 06, 2010

RE: Enterprise Inns slams 'sinister' GMB activity

@Interested Observer: "Which poster? Which pubco; Which director?"

None of your business. That's who.

Being an occasional observer here, you ought to know better than to expect transparency of any kind on these fora.

edited by: J Mark Dodds at: 06/03/2010 14:00:11

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J Mark Dodds 06/03/2010 13:57:09

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Enterprise Inns slams 'sinister' GMB activity

@Simon Rawlings: 'Legal challenge' sounds fine but legal challenge is all about challenging status quo and without precedent it's very difficult to break the status quo. And precedent made in this industry usually is denied by the people who support the status quo as not being precedent but specific law relating to a peculiarity of one lessee's particular circumstances over one specific aspect of one particular type of lease operated by one specific pubco and the 'precedent' does not relate to anyone else's case at all - so it is not a precedent after all - and does not alter the stubbornly embedded status quo. I described some aspects of this situation as I represented myself in the High Court concluding that in essence the situation is 'irrational, illogical, surreal and frankly insane'. The judge responded that he had sympathy with my position but it does not affect interpretation of law.

I have 10s of £Ks worth of legal bills to prove this ludicrous situation and know enough others who have challenged pubco lease legals and had the same sort of outcomes to know, without fear of contradiction, that 'legal challenge' on the basis of law as it stands is simply NOT enough. Typically it only leads to vast amounts of money being hemorrhaged teaching lawyers and barristers, bringing them up to speed, only to find that a court agrees with the status quo.

There are many instances like this where, frankly, the law is a total ASS. And remember this all takes place while you're running a full time, fourteen hours, seven day a week business. Legal challenge on its own is not likely to change anything. If it were a realistic route to take it would already have been taken, and surmounted, by now.

edited by: J Mark Dodds at: 06/03/2010 13:58:29

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J Mark Dodds 06/03/2010 13:59:09

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Enterprise Inns slams 'sinister' GMB activity

Thousands of years of human history and people precedent shows that joint action on a large scale, well managed and coordinated, works where all else fails. How do you think slavery ended, universal suffrage was achieved and society made 'civilised'? By 'legal challenge'? You must be joking.

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Interested Observer 06/03/2010 14:00:40

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RE: Enterprise Inns slams 'sinister' GMB activity

Sorry I spoke!

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Simon Rawlings 06/03/2010 14:06:35

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Enterprise Inns slams 'sinister' GMB activity

Mark, I don't disagree with you "Legal challenge on its own is not likely to change anything" but neither is deliberately flaunting the law. There has to be a compromise or combined solution somehow and that is what we should be thinking about. Banging the drum to teach the pubcos a lesson simply will not work.The GMB are the major players now and it's up to them to come up with the legal method to bring change about. Slavery and suffrage etc were faults with the whole of society, not just a few thousand tenants and so changing the law was in the interests of the majority. If we try to use those warts on the face of history as relevant precedents it will fail. You say that you represented yourself in the high court, what for and how?


@Tony Preston - you, Tony are a man of moral substance and fortitude, you would NEVER have built a business that operates on such flimsy tracks as those of the pubcos and so would not find yourself reading about the failings and shortcomings of your business.

The directors of pubcos by and large do not know the first thing about running a pub. They just know how to asset strip in the most bungling short term ways imaginable, not even covering their own tracks as they do so, and they know how to tear profit out of the whole chain, transferring cash from shop floor to boardroom with a sleight of hand that's bedazzled all observers for a couple of decades. Now the buildings are falling apart following two decades of no maintenance or reinvestment, and the businesses that operate out of the buildings are falling like flies, and when directors of these pubcos read these fora, no matter how they might feel they need to react, they are incapable of changing their company's behaviour because, fundamentally, they cannot understand where it's all been going wrong.

Then there is the underlying issue of these pubcos being, like their lessees, in the position of having no financial leeway to be able to invest in their businesses i.e. giving genuine concessions and discounts to their lessees. The ONLY way they can see out of the paper bag they've made for themselves is to pull in people like ROGER WHITESIDE into their messy muddle in the desperate hope that people with expertise from the real world of retail can turn it around before the inevitable happens.
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